Curse

Issac · Jan 09, 2008, 09:17 PM // 21:17

I got not clue why people spend so much time doing a single thing over and over again. Man, if i spend so many hours doing that i would feel pretty stupid.

Harrier's haste · Jan 10, 2008, 02:47 AM // 02:47

Just be glad that they doesn't decrease the drop/fame/gladiator points/rates once you cross the 3 hour line......like they do in South Korea.

Vitas · Jan 10, 2008, 03:14 AM // 03:14

Again: Compassion to those suffering from OCD, and derision to those who want to blame someone for the OCD sufferer's awful situation.

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(or in the case of minors, their parents are to an extent).

Parents are completely responsible for their children - they are not just responsible to an extent. Unfortunately, this is the attitude and/or mindset that creates the 'victim' mentality.

As long as (by any stretch of the imagination) a person can find someone to blame their problems on regardless of whether there is any merit in their claim -- then that person can wear the coveted title of "Victim."

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However, game makers shouldn't specifically encourage self-abuse, and the PBI pushed all the right (or wrong) buttons

Okay - now this poster is actually assuming as fact the guilt of the game makers.

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as if the devs were actually hoping to see some people go berserk.

And here you have it... It's all the fault of the developers, ANet and NCSoft. And what is ironic is that it's not the actual OCD sufferers who are leveling this charge. This person, like too many others, would rather not personally wear the title "Victim" when they can get the better title: "Victim's Advocate."

And this is the saddest part... the advocate always gets more attention than the person or group they are advocating.

People who pervert justice at the expense of the rest of us FTL!!!

great sir s · Jan 10, 2008, 03:41 AM // 03:41

i farm until i get bored, which doesnt take all too long xD

Tom Swift · Jan 10, 2008, 04:23 AM // 04:23

I really think we should take the topic of OCD out of this. A game is no more likely to trigger OCD than any other activity of life because OCD is not really triggered by activities outside the brain. It is triggered by the brain itself and simply focuses on an activity or thought - seemingly at random.

OCD is when an obsession or compulsion gets tied to the survival instinct even though the obsession or compulsion has nothing to do with any life or death situation. In others words, the obsession or compulsion makes no logical sense and no one activity is more likely to be the focus than another. Just because a game is fun, frustrating or addictive does not make it more likely to become the focus of OCD than any other activity. Most of you are taking your own, natural response to the game and inflating it, thinking that this is what happens in OCD. But that is not what OCD does. It does not increase natural desires. It ties natural extreme reactions to actions that normally would not logically lead to those reactions.

OCD doesn't make sense. It is unpredictable. You can't predict that a game or a portion of the game will become the focus of OCD just because the game is slightly addictive in its own right.

What you guys are really talking about is an addiction - and that is completely different than OCD. In an addiction there is an actual logical possible gratification to an action. Addiction requires some kind of rewarding behavior. the focus is not on the activity itself but the possibility of reward, even when the activity is destroying other parts of the person's life. In many individuals the reward is taking the place of more natural and healthy rewards which seem unobtainable in some way.

OCD focuses on an activity while Addiction focuses on the possibility (however small) of reward.

So, while a game may be a problem for someone with an addictive personality, no game is any more dangerous for a person with OCD than any other activity in life would be. So, can we take OCD out of this discussion, please?

(Just as an example of how "illogical" OCD is: In my case, as a teen, I had to blink my eyes in a certain rhythm before any test or before going to sleep at night. I felt that I had to do it "right" or repeat the action. Problem was that I could never really define what "right" was. The more I repeated it and did not get it "right" the more stressed out I got. It literally did feel like the world was going to end if I didn't do it just right even though I knew in my mind that was not true - that is one of the things about OCD, you know what you are doing is illogical but you can't stop it and become very nervous if you are not able to finish the ritual correctly. The rhythm was close to "shave and a hair cut - two bits", by the way, which makes me really sympathize with the OCD sufferer who felt she had to hum a particular tune and complained that "it wouldn't be so bad if it were an interesting tune, but this one is just so boring." Thankfully, it is much better as an adult - probably because the brain chemistry changes but also because I was able to refocus to actions that are less bothersome. But there was no reason why I focussed on blinking rather than hand washing or something else. It just happens. And a game is no more likely than eye blinking to become the focus of OCD)

And for the OP: obsessive-compulsive traits are related to Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY Disorder which is completely different than OCD.

tmakinen · Jan 10, 2008, 05:21 AM // 05:21

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Originally Posted by Vitas

Parents are completely responsible for their children - they are not just responsible to an extent.

I don't know which part of the world you call 'home' but at least where I live the responsibility of parents on the actions of their children is a sliding scale that depends on the age of the child in question. On one extreme there is a child with no personal responsibility whatsoever, and on the other a young adult with full personal responsibility of his/her actions. Between those two extremes parents are responsible to the extent that is not the responsibility of the child. You know, humans don't turn from a child to an adult overnight. This has been specifically codified in law as well.

As for the rest of your rant, you're reading into my words things that are not there. That is usually called a straw man argument and hence I won't even bother addressing it

Vitas · Jan 10, 2008, 06:28 AM // 06:28

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

I don't know which part of the world you call 'home' but at least where I live the responsibility of parents on the actions of their children is a sliding scale that depends on the age of the child in question. On one extreme there is a child with no personal responsibility whatsoever, and on the other a young adult with full personal responsibility of his/her actions.

So you have full responsibility for your 3yo kid but if your kid is 16yo you have little or no responsibility for the actions of that child? That's pretty convenient to absolve you from taking care of your minor child. And so if I exercize full responsibility over my 16yo kid then I am violating the kid's rights and am subject to prosecution? Yes, I can agree that unfortunately we are traveling down that slippery slope, er I mean sliding scale.

I should say that some people are traveling that path - many like myself do not.

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As for the rest of your rant, you're reading into my words things that are not there. That is usually called a straw man argument and hence I won't even bother addressing it

Well, I quoted your words verbatim -- I didn't have to set up a straw man to knock down your attack on the GW team. What you have done since you can't defend without taking your words back is don't address it at all and hope that people forget there was actually a valid objection to what you said:

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hence I won't even bother addressing it

But I will clarify for you anyway

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

However, game makers

Hmm, are you talking about GW??... we are not quite sure here...

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

shouldn't specifically encourage self-abuse, and the PBI

(your so-called Polar Bear Incident to be specific) Oh, okay, you were talking about GW!

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

pushed all the right (or wrong) buttons

...stressing 'wrong'

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Originally Posted by tmakinen

as if the devs were actually hoping to see some people go berserk.

... so the devs seem to have hoped for someone 'going berserk.'

Nope - I didn't have to add a thing. I really wish you would be more thoughtful when you post. -V

Tom Swift · Jan 14, 2008, 01:43 AM // 01:43

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Originally Posted by Vitas

... so the devs seem to have hoped for someone 'going berserk.' (sarcasm)

Well - I was defending ANet on this point - that it is not their responsibility what the players chose to do to themselves as they play the game.

But I just saw Gray's answer about the polar bear - they are not changing their decision - they still think it was a good idea to have it there in the tiny numbers they originally assigned to it.

Since, they have never bothered to explain why they thought that this was such a good idea - and the only thing it did accomplish was to encourage people to spend long hours in a repetitive activity that could have done both physical and emotional harm, I can only conclude this was, in fact, their intention. It would appear the Devs did indeed hope for someone to go berserk

Lady Raenef · Jan 14, 2008, 02:35 AM // 02:35

Eh, just depends on if you want to waste time or not.